Trade Copier Implementation

Does anyone get FLATTEN errors, where you press FLATTEN in a group trade and it doesn't really flatten the entire group position?

I just had to hit FLATTEN 3 times and it destroyed the trade more or less?
 
Yeah let us file a bug via support. When you FLATTEN it's not working, I get errors, new fills, not clear if the fill is a SELL or a BID, it's a mess.

Btw, my fix for this is MARKET SELL/BUY @ CON # then CANCEL ALL is my current workaround.
I don't understand it.... This has happened before but never like this....
 
I have been having a trade copier issue as well.

Trading Express Funded Account with Topstep Trader on Rithmic.

I noticed whenever I flattened it was always the follower account that would not flatten. Confirmed by switching the Lead and Follower accounts in the trade copier.

The error I received was "Error Closing Position: Order Action Failed... Rejected at RMS - Total buy quantity of account would exceed its limit"

Screen Shot 2023-10-03 at 13.42.31 PM [2].png

This was in response to attempting to flatten a 3-lot short position with a bracket of buy orders for stop and take-profit.

Considering the funded account has a position size limit of 3 lots at my current balance, I think something is getting hung up between Rithmic's Risk Management (RMS) and flatten order from MW.

Rithmic is probably seeing the closing buy order in addition to the bracket orders and kicks it back since the "quantity of account would exceed its limit."

What is strange is that the Lead account flattens fine, but something about the follower account's sequence causes it to be the one that gets hung up.

Temporary Fix: If you have a bracket order (or any other orders for that matter), hit "Cancel All" first, then "Flatten All".

This should give Rithmic the time to clear the orders before attempting to close the position.

I know the Flatten Button is supposed to already do this, and I know it takes an extra second to execute. But until this issue is solved I'd rather spend the extra second clicking an extra button, than taking the extra few seconds to close the individual accounts manually or switch to rithmic and flatten there. At the end of the day, my trading style allows me to take that extra second without much consequence. At the same time, I know some trading styles require a more immediate flatten feature copied on multiple accounts. Hopefully, this will be resolved one day. Trade Well.
 
Trade coper work fine only issue when i click cancel all Then flatten all it's not working then i need to look fort each contract and close it manually.
Is there way to do put limit on all at ones
 
Thank you for reminding me about this. MW/Rithmic is choking on processing the 2x of the Flatten on the group orders.

CANCEL ALL -
RITHMIC CLOSES ALL ORDERS.

FLATTEN - TRADES CLOSE CLEAN.

I have been having a trade copier issue as well.

Trading Express Funded Account with Topstep Trader on Rithmic.

I noticed whenever I flattened it was always the follower account that would not flatten. Confirmed by switching the Lead and Follower accounts in the trade copier.

The error I received was "Error Closing Position: Order Action Failed... Rejected at RMS - Total buy quantity of account would exceed its limit"

View attachment 1996

This was in response to attempting to flatten a 3-lot short position with a bracket of buy orders for stop and take-profit.

Considering the funded account has a position size limit of 3 lots at my current balance, I think something is getting hung up between Rithmic's Risk Management (RMS) and flatten order from MW.

Rithmic is probably seeing the closing buy order in addition to the bracket orders and kicks it back since the "quantity of account would exceed its limit."

What is strange is that the Lead account flattens fine, but something about the follower account's sequence causes it to be the one that gets hung up.

Temporary Fix: If you have a bracket order (or any other orders for that matter), hit "Cancel All" first, then "Flatten All".

This should give Rithmic the time to clear the orders before attempting to close the position.

I know the Flatten Button is supposed to already do this, and I know it takes an extra second to execute. But until this issue is solved I'd rather spend the extra second clicking an extra button, than taking the extra few seconds to close the individual accounts manually or switch to rithmic and flatten there. At the end of the day, my trading style allows me to take that extra second without much consequence. At the same time, I know some trading styles require a more immediate flatten feature copied on multiple accounts. Hopefully, this will be resolved one day. Trade Well.
 
FYI: There is a malfunction with the trade copier if you place an order with an attached profit target and stop loss, and then move either of those attached orders. The attached order only gets modified in the leader account, but not the follower accounts, and I lost too much money figuring that out.

Since it's a new feature, fine, I figured I'd report it to support and they would get it fixed. I reported it to support last Friday, provided all of my log files, trade history, timelines, etc. and they tried to dismiss it *twice* as a Rithmic connection issue and scold me on allowing my computer to sleep while running Motivewave — despite me pointing out that the log files showed the contrary (thankfully I know how to read logs) during the time I placed the trade.

Since they insisted on dismissing the log files, I recorded a video so they couldn't deny it was happening, and they still said they "couldn't reproduce it" and asked me to send my workspace backup. Finally — today — they've agreed that there is indeed an issue and are "passing it onto development."


Hopefully no one else has to lose any money like I did, and they actually fix it instead of dismissing people with genuine and verifiable bug reports.
I'm experiencing a similar but slightly different issue - - adjusting a stop order in a trade copier account only moves the stop for the lead account but not the follower account.

Say I take a long position in a copier account (with 2 accounts) then manually place a stop order via the DOM. Then, I manually adjust the stop to a different price in the copier account (by dragging the order) and the adjustment only happens in the lead account but not the follower account. The stop remains unadjusted and stays at the previous location in the follower account.

It happens reliably, every time (rather than seemingly spontaneously like I've experienced with other issues of the trade copier such as when flattening it can fail to flatten positions in some of the trade copier linked accounts).

I captured a short, 45 second video to demonstrate this simple bug in the trade copier. Here is the link:


(It is published as unlisted so only people who have the link can view it. Just want to be clear that MotiveWave is great software so not trying to cause issues by making it public.)

If MotiveWave were to dial in the trade copier feature and then create a video release demonstrating reliable functionality I believe they would draw many more customers since it would then be a great platform to use for funded-account/online prop traders and also for professional account managers that are managing futures positions across multiple accounts. Traders want to save money by not having to pay for multiple platforms so if MotiveWave can provide reliable trade-copier functionality it could incentivize traders to use MotiveWave to save from having to pay for separate charting and execution platforms. Also, having one front-end platform to both execute and chart from saves screen-space and simplifies the workspace.
 
I'm experiencing a similar but slightly different issue - - adjusting a stop order in a trade copier account only moves the stop for the lead account but not the follower account.

Say I take a long position in a copier account (with 2 accounts) then manually place a stop order via the DOM. Then, I manually adjust the stop to a different price in the copier account (by dragging the order) and the adjustment only happens in the lead account but not the follower account. The stop remains unadjusted and stays at the previous location in the follower account.

It happens reliably, every time (rather than seemingly spontaneously like I've experienced with other issues of the trade copier such as when flattening it can fail to flatten positions in some of the trade copier linked accounts).

I captured a short, 45 second video to demonstrate this simple bug in the trade copier. Here is the link:


(It is published as unlisted so only people who have the link can view it. Just want to be clear that MotiveWave is great software so not trying to cause issues by making it public.)

If MotiveWave were to dial in the trade copier feature and then create a video release demonstrating reliable functionality I believe they would draw many more customers since it would then be a great platform to use for funded-account/online prop traders and also for professional account managers that are managing futures positions across multiple accounts. Traders want to save money by not having to pay for multiple platforms so if MotiveWave can provide reliable trade-copier functionality it could incentivize traders to use MotiveWave to save from having to pay for separate charting and execution platforms. Also, having one front-end platform to both execute and chart from saves screen-space and simplifies the workspace.

Is the "XXXXPair" account that is shown in the dropdown menu of your DOM the trade copier you account you created? If so, can you post a screen shot of that trade copier account settings??

Also are both of those account from the same Login ID (Example: Apex / Rithmic login, but you have 2 accounts) and both the same data feed??
 
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Is the "XXXXPair" account that is shown in the dropdown menu of your DOM the trade copier you account you created? If so, can you post a screen shot of that trade copier account settings??

Also are both of those account from the same Login ID (Example: Apex / Rithmic login, but you have 2 accounts) and both the same data feed??
Yes, "XXXXXPair" is the trade copier account. Here is a screenshot:

1702975579461.png

Yes both accounts are from the same login ID and both from the same data feed (I'm running the "order flow" version of MotiveWave so can't use more than one broker and data-feed per workspace).
 
Yes, "XXXXXPair" is the trade copier account. Here is a screenshot:

View attachment 2161

Yes both accounts are from the same login ID and both from the same data feed (I'm running the "order flow" version of MotiveWave so can't use more than one broker and data-feed per workspace).

Hmmm.... Settings look correct.

A couple of things:

1) Which version of MW are you running (I know you said Orderflow, but as far as updates go - Are you on 6.8.6?)
2) Not sure if this matters, but I always set my trade copier account to the default account - You could certainly try that if you already haven't. Just right click on the account (On the accounts tab) and set it as the default.
3) Who is your data provider? Is is Rithmic?

I use the Trade Copier every day and move my stops / profit targets around in the DOM and it works perfectly. I am using Rithmic, so I am just trying to determine what the difference is between your setup and mine :)
 
Hmmm.... Settings look correct.

A couple of things:

1) Which version of MW are you running (I know you said Orderflow, but as far as updates go - Are you on 6.8.6?)
2) Not sure if this matters, but I always set my trade copier account to the default account - You could certainly try that if you already haven't. Just right click on the account (On the accounts tab) and set it as the default.
3) Who is your data provider? Is is Rithmic?

I use the Trade Copier every day and move my stops / profit targets around in the DOM and it works perfectly. I am using Rithmic, so I am just trying to determine what the difference is between your setup and mine :)
1) yes, 6.8.6
2) I think it was set to the default account, but actually not certain. I may have made that change afterward when adjusting things b/c it wasn't until recently that I noticed that could be done.
3) Data provider is Rithmic via Apex which uses:
- Gateway: Chicago
- System: Apex
- Non-aggregated market data

I'll test it again keeping in mind the copier account is set to default and see if it yields a different result.

What kind of setup are you using that is working?
A) Are you on the Pro edition?
B) How many accounts do you have in the copier account?
C) Which data service are you using? More than one?
D) Are they trader-funding accounts or real accounts?
E) Which broker or brokers?
F) Do you have success using both bracketed stops and manual stops and exits?

thanks, Aaron
 
1) yes, 6.8.6
2) I think it was set to the default account, but actually not certain. I may have made that change afterward when adjusting things b/c it wasn't until recently that I noticed that could be done.
3) Data provider is Rithmic via Apex which uses:
- Gateway: Chicago
- System: Apex
- Non-aggregated market data

I'll test it again keeping in mind the copier account is set to default and see if it yields a different result.

What kind of setup are you using that is working?
A) Are you on the Pro edition?
B) How many accounts do you have in the copier account?
C) Which data service are you using? More than one?
D) Are they trader-funding accounts or real accounts?
E) Which broker or brokers?
F) Do you have success using both bracketed stops and manual stops and exits?

thanks, Aaron


A lot of things are the same... Please give it a try with the Trade Copier being set as a the default account and let me know...

Actually my only experience is with the trade copier is running it for Apex... To answer your questions.

A) Yes Pro Edition
B) I have used as many as 6
C) Apex / Rithmic (Only 1 login with multiple accounts)
D) Funded accounts as well as Eval accounts run together fine with the copier
E) Apex / Rithmic
F) Yes I often use manual stops or brackets and have not noticed your specific problem either way.

I should mention there is a bug somewhere in the communication between Rithmic and MotiveWave that will sometimes lead you to believe you are still in a position even though it has been closed out. This is an entirely different situation, but the reason I mention it is because I connect to MW via R Trader Pro to manage that issue. I cannot believe my connection through R Trader Pro is the difference, but I suppose anything is possible.

To connect that way you will need the Apex version of R Trader Pro which can be found on their webpage - If you cannot find it let me know and I'll send you a link.
 
@Donovan2580 Thanks for the reply and information. I did quite a bit of testing today and recorded the tests. At first the issue wasn't there anymore and it was a bit frustrating that I couldn't replicate it again. But I ended up figuring out that the issue has to do specifically with using the 'Break Even' button and another separate issue when using the 'Cancel All' button. I'll create another post with the video and more specific information, but a quick summary is:

1) When I'm in a position in the copier account (e.g. 1 contract via copier, so 1 contract in each sub-account) then I press 'Break Even,' a stop is placed at break-even in both accounts as expected. Then, when I drag the stop order via the DOM to a different price using the copier account, at this point the stop order is adjusted only in the lead account and remains at the previous break-even price in the follower account.

2) If I subsequently press 'Cancel All' in the copier account, only the stop order in the lead account is cancelled while the stop order in the follower account remains uncancelled.

3) Changing the setting of 'default' to 'Y' or 'N' on the copier account seems to have no affect, as the bug happens under both conditions.

There were a few other quirks I came across and will address them in a follow-up post.
 
@Donovan2580 Thanks for the reply and information. I did quite a bit of testing today and recorded the tests. At first the issue wasn't there anymore and it was a bit frustrating that I couldn't replicate it again. But I ended up figuring out that the issue has to do specifically with using the 'Break Even' button and another separate issue when using the 'Cancel All' button. I'll create another post with the video and more specific information, but a quick summary is:

1) When I'm in a position in the copier account (e.g. 1 contract via copier, so 1 contract in each sub-account) then I press 'Break Even,' a stop is placed at break-even in both accounts as expected. Then, when I drag the stop order via the DOM to a different price using the copier account, at this point the stop order is adjusted only in the lead account and remains at the previous break-even price in the follower account.

2) If I subsequently press 'Cancel All' in the copier account, only the stop order in the lead account is cancelled while the stop order in the follower account remains uncancelled.

3) Changing the setting of 'default' to 'Y' or 'N' on the copier account seems to have no affect, as the bug happens under both conditions.

There were a few other quirks I came across and will address them in a follow-up post.

Okay now we are getting somewhere :) To be honest I have never used the breakeven button. I just drag my stop there, or my exit strategy automatically moves it for me once it meets the criteria. I guess it makes sense that I have never ran across that quirk.

Also it is good to know that the default account does not over-rule the trade copier.
 
Okay now we are getting somewhere :) To be honest I have never used the breakeven button. I just drag my stop there, or my exit strategy automatically moves it for me once it meets the criteria. I guess it makes sense that I have never ran across that quirk.

Also it is good to know that the default account does not over-rule the trade copier.
Next time you are in a trade using the trade copier and have an exit strategy move your stop to breakeven, could you run a test by dragging the stop order (via the copier account) to a different price and see if it moves in all of the sub-accounts? That would be helpful to know if it functions correctly in a bracket-order scenario.

I don't think I will have time soon to edit the videos and create a new post with more detailed information, but will try to follow-up on it at some point. The brief summary I posted above describes the main issues. If anyone runs into the same issues or is willing to test it out please post up.
 
I should mention there is a bug somewhere in the communication between Rithmic and MotiveWave that will sometimes lead you to believe you are still in a position even though it has been closed out. This is an entirely different situation, but the reason I mention it is because I connect to MW via R Trader Pro to manage that issue. I cannot believe my connection through R Trader Pro is the difference, but I suppose anything is possible.

To connect that way you will need the Apex version of R Trader Pro which can be found on their webpage - If you cannot find it let me know and I'll send you a link.
I have run into that issue as well. What I've noticed is that the DOM will still show a position at the bottom where it says "Pos:" then + or - whatever position you're in even after you've closed the trade. It's a bit tricky but not too difficult to catch after you recognize that it does sometimes happen because you will notice that when you've closed the position from the DOM, nothing seems to happen when it should have closed the trade. The remedy I've found is to go to the 'accounts' tab, right click 'accounts' to show the pop-up menu, then select 'refresh.' If I remember correctly, when it happens to me, the 'open positions' tab and 'active tab' do not show any open positions, only the 'account' tab and the DOM; so this is another clue NOT to use the trade order buttons to try to close the trade since it will result in taking an opposite position. Either refresh (best option) or restart the software to get rid of the "phantom" position.

1703091676703.png

These bugs are very unfortunate to have to deal with in a fast moving market. Once volatility increases again it will be difficult to manage and we're likely to hear about more complaints.
 
Next time you are in a trade using the trade copier and have an exit strategy move your stop to breakeven, could you run a test by dragging the stop order (via the copier account) to a different price and see if it moves in all of the sub-accounts? That would be helpful to know if it functions correctly in a bracket-order scenario.

I don't think I will have time soon to edit the videos and create a new post with more detailed information, but will try to follow-up on it at some point. The brief summary I posted above describes the main issues. If anyone runs into the same issues or is willing to test it out please post up.

I tried it out today and it worked just fine:

IE - My exit strategy automatically moved my stop to B.E. when I got up 16 ticks... It happened today and I was able to move that order on the trade copier account & all other accounts moved as well.

Hope that helps :)
 
Hi All,

I cancelled my MW subscription some time back, but am contemplating coming back now that the Trade Copier is finally available.

As a Mac user, I’m on the fence between reinstalling MW, or using Quantower or NinjaTrader via Paralells.

My questions are:

Is there a limit to how many “follower” accounts you can add?

Have the Flatten errors I’ve read about here been addressed and resolved?

Is the Trade Copier dependable now? (December 28, 2023)

Does it work on the mobile version?


Thanks ins advance.
 
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