M1 Native Performance

t85

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Im glad to hear ur experience,actually the trading field has many probs with mac,u have strong expensive machines that too bad cant deal with order flow package,thts bad, for me yea i only use simple tools and im scalper i need speed machine,i like mac'os system and i want to switch to it but its confusing to do so for trading after hearing ur exp, im not ready to have the same bcs im trading with prop firm,u know not like when u own an account for urslf so ill upgrade and stick with 600$ 800$ windows lap
Yes I consider myself what Jim Dalton would call a "fast trader" which is another way of calling it a modern day "scalper" so I rely pretty heavily on order flow tools and ability to navigate quickly.

However, in all fairness, one of my coaches who's a great successful 20 year veteran traders uses MW on a Mac and has no issues pulling money out of the markets every week.

When I'm honest with myself, me succeeding or failing as a trader has more to do with me executing properly than what computer/OS I use. So if you are truly interested in using the macOS, which I definitely understand, then don't let my experience sway you.

I use macOS for EVERYTHING else and mac is just a much better experience in my day to day activity and other business.

I could also say that having a separate computer with a different operating system for trading does help me better compartmentalize and structure my days...i.e. my "trading time" is done on the "trading computer" and once i switch it off and go to my mac, then I can focus on my other business without feeling tempted to "take a peek" at markets when I'm not supposed to.

Anyway, hopefully this helps, and as I said, my coach who pulls money out of the markets consistently trading large contract sizes on ES has only ever used MW on Mac and he has ZERO complaints, and the pain of switching to Windows when he's already profitable and comfortable with the MW experience mac isn't necessarily going to cause him to make more money, so there's no true justification I suppose.

Also, the more I think about it, MW lag on mac become a much more noticeable issue when I moved up to 4k monitors, so there's a case for you getting a mac if you're going to stick with 1440p resolution or lower for your monitor. If you want to use 4k monitors, then that's where the question of going mac vs windows becomes a bigger thing to contemplate, until JavaFX supports metal.

So to recap, if you use MW on mac with a 1440p resolution monitor and simply never allow yourself to experience it on windows, and are using a simple strategy that doesn't really require you to quickly drag charts around with all kinds of intense calculating studies such as Cumulative Delta or TPO charts, then it could be totally fine sticking with the mac, and hopefully one day JavaFX will support metal.

Either way, the apple machines have a 14 day return policy with no hassle, so you could always grab one and test it out to really determine if it can work out or not.

Hope this is helpful
 

Amine

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Yes I consider myself what Jim Dalton would call a "fast trader" which is another way of calling it a modern day "scalper" so I rely pretty heavily on order flow tools and ability to navigate quickly.

However, in all fairness, one of my coaches who's a great successful 20 year veteran traders uses MW on a Mac and has no issues pulling money out of the markets every week.

When I'm honest with myself, me succeeding or failing as a trader has more to do with me executing properly than what computer/OS I use. So if you are truly interested in using the macOS, which I definitely understand, then don't let my experience sway you.

I use macOS for EVERYTHING else and mac is just a much better experience in my day to day activity and other business.

I could also say that having a separate computer with a different operating system for trading does help me better compartmentalize and structure my days...i.e. my "trading time" is done on the "trading computer" and once i switch it off and go to my mac, then I can focus on my other business without feeling tempted to "take a peek" at markets when I'm not supposed to.

Anyway, hopefully this helps, and as I said, my coach who pulls money out of the markets consistently trading large contract sizes on ES has only ever used MW on Mac and he has ZERO complaints, and the pain of switching to Windows when he's already profitable and comfortable with the MW experience mac isn't necessarily going to cause him to make more money, so there's no true justification I suppose.

Also, the more I think about it, MW lag on mac become a much more noticeable issue when I moved up to 4k monitors, so there's a case for you getting a mac if you're going to stick with 1440p resolution or lower for your monitor. If you want to use 4k monitors, then that's where the question of going mac vs windows becomes a bigger thing to contemplate, until JavaFX supports metal.

So to recap, if you use MW on mac with a 1440p resolution monitor and simply never allow yourself to experience it on windows, and are using a simple strategy that doesn't really require you to quickly drag charts around with all kinds of intense calculating studies such as Cumulative Delta or TPO charts, then it could be totally fine sticking with the mac, and hopefully one day JavaFX will support metal.

Either way, the apple machines have a 14 day return policy with no hassle, so you could always grab one and test it out to really determine if it can work out or not.

Hope this is helpful
Thank u so mush for ur clarification it helps alot ,the reason i want to switch to mac is that all my life i used windows start from the 98 to 10 and i suffered a lot bcs of this system, lot of viruses,malwares,bugs,u download smtng and weird pop ups came along with it frm nowhere tht disturb u everytime u turn on the lap,life battery die fastly,even browsing laged if u open many youtube tabs and get hot etc..., but when ive read about the M1 ship i said well this is it, i wanna use this strong fast mac for trading as scalper with my simple strategy i even dont use monitors i prefer only laptop nd doing well with that and for browsing and netflix,ofc the trading skills is what matter no matter wht system u use or machine but windows made me suffer as i mentioned thts why apple left intel ships nd there is a member here he said tht i7 10gn is weak compared to M1 thts why i want to switch to feel cnfortable nd live a better experience from a very long windows user
 

t85

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Thank u so mush for ur clarification it helps alot ,the reason i want to switch to mac is that all my life i used windows start from the 98 to 10 and i suffered a lot bcs of this system, lot of viruses,malwares,bugs,u download smtng and weird pop ups came along with it frm nowhere tht disturb u everytime u turn on the lap,life battery die fastly,even browsing laged if u open many youtube tabs and get hot etc..., but when ive read about the M1 ship i said well this is it, i wanna use this strong fast mac for trading as scalper with my simple strategy i even dont use monitors i prefer only laptop nd doing well with that and for browsing and netflix,ofc the trading skills is what matter no matter wht system u use or machine but windows made me suffer as i mentioned thts why apple left intel ships nd there is a member here he said tht i7 10gn is weak compared to M1 thts why i want to switch to feel cnfortable nd live a better experience from a very long windows user
Indeed. I definitely understand the desire to go with mac, as said I've been a heavy mac user for a long time and still struggle messing with windows other than using MW and Jigsaw LOL.

But I have an idea...checking now....
.....
.....

Ok so I just disconnected the m1 macbook air from the external monitor and it seems a lot better than when connected to the monitor. Keep in mind, the market is closed now so what I can do is, try it like this Monday during RTH, and let ya know if it still works decent.

If you're not using an external monitor and going to work directly off of the laptop, then it may actually be fine.

Will let ya know what I find if you'd like.
 

Amine

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Indeed. I definitely understand the desire to go with mac, as said I've been a heavy mac user for a long time and still struggle messing with windows other than using MW and Jigsaw LOL.

But I have an idea...checking now....
.....
.....

Ok so I just disconnected the m1 macbook air from the external monitor and it seems a lot better than when connected to the monitor. Keep in mind, the market is closed now so what I can do is, try it like this Monday during RTH, and let ya know if it still works decent.

If you're not using an external monitor and going to work directly off of the laptop, then it may actually be fine.

Will let ya know what I find if you'd like.
Actually yeah u will find windows like if u were in ferrari (mac) and now ur driving volksvagen (windows) LOL, and yea mac air will look nice without monitors as i saw in videos,and thank u so mush i would like to hear from u when market opens,so ur mac is 8gb right? 215ssd,or 16gb?
 

t85

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Actually yeah u will find windows like if u were in ferrari (mac) and now ur driving volksvagen (windows) LOL, and yea mac air will look nice without monitors as i saw in videos,and thank u so mush i would like to hear from u when market opens,so ur mac is 8gb right? 215ssd,or 16gb?
The MacBook Air I have is M1 16gb ram and 1tb ssd.
The Mac Mini I have is also M1 16gb and 1tb ssd.

The Mac Pro desktop I have is Xeon processor with 128gb ram and 2tb ssd. But I think the MacBook Air m1 runs just as well as this machine nowadays with most software unless I’m composing big orchestral music scores that need the extra ram.

Will let ya know how the mbair does monday when tons of live data is pouring through while disconnected from the monitor. I did some market replay on it earlier and it was still pretty good.
 

Amine

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The MacBook Air I have is M1 16gb ram and 1tb ssd.
The Mac Mini I have is also M1 16gb and 1tb ssd.

The Mac Pro desktop I have is Xeon processor with 128gb ram and 2tb ssd. But I think the MacBook Air m1 runs just as well as this machine nowadays with most software unless I’m composing big orchestral music scores that need the extra ram.

Will let ya know how the mbair does monday when tons of live data is pouring through while disconnected from the monitor. I did some market replay on it earlier and it was
The MacBook Air I have is M1 16gb ram and 1tb ssd.
The Mac Mini I have is also M1 16gb and 1tb ssd.

The Mac Pro desktop I have is Xeon processor with 128gb ram and 2tb ssd. But I think the MacBook Air m1 runs just as well as this machine nowadays with most software unless I’m composing big orchestral music scores that need the extra ram.

Will let ya know how the mbair does monday when tons of live data is pouring through while disconnected from the monitor. I did some market replay on it earlier and it was still pretty good
still pretty good.

The MacBook Air I have is M1 16gb ram and 1tb ssd.
The Mac Mini I have is also M1 16gb and 1tb ssd.

The Mac Pro desktop I have is Xeon processor with 128gb ram and 2tb ssd. But I think the MacBook Air m1 runs just as well as this machine nowadays with most software unless I’m composing big orchestral music scores that need the extra ram.

Will let ya know how the mbair does monday when tons of live data is pouring through while disconnected from the monitor. I did some market replay on it earlier and it was still pretty good

The MacBook Air I have is M1 16gb ram and 1tb ssd.
The Mac Mini I have is also M1 16gb and 1tb ssd.

The Mac Pro desktop I have is Xeon processor with 128gb ram and 2tb ssd. But I think the MacBook Air m1 runs just as well as this machine nowadays with most software unless I’m composing big orchestral music scores that need the extra ram.

Will let ya know how the mbair does monday when tons of live data is pouring through while disconnected from the monitor. I did some market replay on it earlier and it was still pretty good.
I want to get only 8gb mac air bcs i dont use it for very high tasks other than simple trading no big studies or huge apps nd browsing

Sure im waiting for it i appreciate that
 

t85

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I want to get only 8gb mac air bcs i dont use it for very high tasks other than simple trading no big studies or huge apps nd browsing

Sure im waiting for it i appreciate that
Ok so what I found is, it works fine if you:

A) Don't connect the mac to a high resolution external monitor
B) Don't have a lot of individual elements on screen, such as a lot of text.

The easiest way I could demonstrate B is with my TPO chart. You can see in the video where when I have the tpo's zoomed out to not show the letters, I can drag the chart around pretty well without much stuttering. It's not as fast as the windows machine with two 4k monitors, but workable. Once I zoom in to display the TPO letters, then you can see it gets much more laggy when I try to drag things around.

Order placement seems fine in either case. Again, while I'm used to it being faster, I'd say if you've never experienced it on windows then it may not be an issue, and as said, one of my coaches has already made plenty of money trading with it on his mac.

Let me know what you think and if other questions come to mind.

 

Amine

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Mmm yea i noticed the lag in the video so this is the result of using weight studies like tpo etc on mac air 16gb without monitors ... it mst be a solution or making a request report to respensables for this issue wht do u think?
so u didnt find this issue in windows ,and this is bcs of javafx librar limit,i hope u wont find this problem in windows machine in future,thnk u for ur help
Ok so what I found is, it works fine if you:

A) Don't connect the mac to a high resolution external monitor
B) Don't have a lot of individual elements on screen, such as a lot of text.

The easiest way I could demonstrate B is with my TPO chart. You can see in the video where when I have the tpo's zoomed out to not show the letters, I can drag the chart around pretty well without much stuttering. It's not as fast as the windows machine with two 4k monitors, but workable. Once I zoom in to display the TPO letters, then you can see it gets much more laggy when I try to drag things around.

Order placement seems fine in either case. Again, while I'm used to it being faster, I'd say if you've never experienced it on windows then it may not be an issue, and as said, one of my coaches has already made plenty of money trading with it on his mac.

Let me know what you think and if other questions come to mind.

 

t85

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Mmm yea i noticed the lag in the video so this is the result of using weight studies like tpo etc on mac air 16gb without monitors ... it mst be a solution or making a request report to respensables for this issue wht do u think?
so u didnt find this issue in windows ,and this is bcs of javafx librar limit,i hope u wont find this problem in windows machine in future,thnk u for ur help
It runs as smooth as butter and fast as a rocket on my windows machine connected to TWO 4k Monitors even while screen recording.

I just traded sim for a bit on the mac just to see, and thought "hey this isn't too bad actually from the laptop"....then went on the windows machine with the 4k monitors and it's just a massive difference in speed and quality of experience still, even clicking orders into the DOM scalping...everything is just faster.

I should mention that my windows machine is still an 8-core with 64gb of ram and 1tb ssd and GTX 1660 graphics card, because I like to screen record all my stuff so.

But even my basic Microsoft Surface Laptop 3 with 16gb of ram connected to 4k monitor is fast with no lag and MW operates far better on it than all 3 of my macs, including the high end desktop mac. So yea, if you want the mac, you likely won't be bothered as long as you don't experience MW on windows....

...and again as I said..I'm nowhere near as profitable as the coach I mentioned who's consistently pulling profits out of the market with MW on his mac, and he never mentions any issue with it so...and as said he trades anywhere from 10-40 ES/NQ contracts depending on volatility and time of year so...if it's good enough for him...then...
 

Amine

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It runs as smooth as butter and fast as a rocket on my windows machine connected to TWO 4k Monitors even while screen recording.

I just traded sim for a bit on the mac just to see, and thought "hey this isn't too bad actually from the laptop"....then went on the windows machine with the 4k monitors and it's just a massive difference in speed and quality of experience still, even clicking orders into the DOM scalping...everything is just faster.

I should mention that my windows machine is still an 8-core with 64gb of ram and 1tb ssd and GTX 1660 graphics card, because I like to screen record all my stuff so.

But even my basic Microsoft Surface Laptop 3 with 16gb of ram connected to 4k monitor is fast with no lag and MW operates far better on it than all 3 of my macs, including the high end desktop mac. So yea, if you want the mac, you likely won't be bothered as long as you don't experience MW on windows....

...and again as I said..I'm nowhere near as profitable as the coach I mentioned who's consistently pulling profits out of the market with MW on his mac, and he never mentions any issue with it so...and as said he trades anywhere from 10-40 ES/NQ contracts depending on volatility and time of year so...if it's good enough for him...then...
I get you nd happy for u having better experience
Is ur windows machine processurs i7 i5 nd what generation?

When do u think we gonna see this very high performance on macs ,apple is near to realese the m2 or m1x
 

igor.s

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I have 2 laptops - both are 6 year old, Dell and Macbook Pro. When I look at the activity monitor I see that Dell with Linux installed offers less load on the CPU and memory, also it is more snappier subjectively. Mac is a good hardware, but it seems the OS is getting heavier and heavier. So I use Dell/Linux for day trading and the Mac for anything else. Never been a fan of MS Windows. :)

cheers
 

t85

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Same, I only use the windows machines for trading and nothing else...and use mac for everything else. @Amine there you have another user @igor.s confirming that MW is snappier on windows, even just a laptop.

My desktop setup to answer you question is a Dell G5, with 10th gen Intel 1(0700 i7 8-core - 16 w/hyperthreading) and 16 MB of L3 cache + NVIDIA GTX1660, 64 gb of ram, 1 or 2 tb ssd so I can record and store videos of my trading sessions.

The laptop is a much older Microsoft surface laptop 3 with whatever gen Intel that one had, built in graphics, 16gb ram with 256gb ssd, and that one still beats the pants off all my macs including the $13k Mac Pro as far as MotiveWave goes.

To answer your other question, I think it will take either:

A) MotiveWave to be built "true native" by being built in Swift or Objective-C/C++ using the Metal infrastructure for Apple

or

B) JavaFX framework to implement Metal in the underlying engine so that MW, Bookmap and all other JavaFX "native" platforms operate more proper on mac in terms of graphical responsiveness and snap
 

Amine

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Same, I only use the windows machines for trading and nothing else...and use mac for everything else. @Amine there you have another user @igor.s confirming that MW is snappier on windows, even just a laptop.

My desktop setup to answer you question is a Dell G5, with 10th gen Intel 1(0700 i7 8-core - 16 w/hyperthreading) and 16 MB of L3 cache + NVIDIA GTX1660, 64 gb of ram, 1 or 2 tb ssd so I can record and store videos of my trading sessions.

The laptop is a much older Microsoft surface laptop 3 with whatever gen Intel that one had, built in graphics, 16gb ram with 256gb ssd, and that one still beats the pants off all my macs including the $13k Mac Pro as far as MotiveWave goes.

To answer your other question, I think it will take either:

A) MotiveWave to be built "true native" by being built in Swift or Objective-C/C++ using the Metal infrastructure for Apple

or

B) JavaFX framework to implement Metal in the underlying engine so that MW, Bookmap and all other JavaFX "native" platforms operate more proper on mac in terms of graphical responsiveness and snap
Yeah i see,then until mw and javafx fix this things ill get a good window machine better than my old one
 

hokxj

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Interesting to see so many conflicting experiences.

My own comparison of MW on Mac vs Windows is between a Dell XPS 13 i7-1065G7 32GB ram with integrated graphics (2-3 years old) and a M1 Max 24c 32GB RAM.

When using MW, I'm plugging both into a 49inch 5120x1440p display. I also record this display with OBS.

I use candle sticks, footprints, volume profile and TPOs. I'm not a scalper and use the 5m chart.

Just 5 mins with each laptop and I can already tell the difference. The windows laptop has so much more cursor lag and chart scrolling lag.

When I use OBS with MW, the windows laptop is struggling massively. Everything is sluggish. In comparison, the M1 Max is absolutely fine.

I do still experience the occasional hiccup with both, namely TPO's on the weekly just seem to load endlessly.

I'm not a programmer, but my understanding is that most java based platforms will never perform as well as platforms written in C++ like Sierra Charts.
 

t85

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Interesting to see so many conflicting experiences.

My own comparison of MW on Mac vs Windows is between a Dell XPS 13 i7-1065G7 32GB ram with integrated graphics (2-3 years old) and a M1 Max 24c 32GB RAM.

When using MW, I'm plugging both into a 49inch 5120x1440p display. I also record this display with OBS.

I use candle sticks, footprints, volume profile and TPOs. I'm not a scalper and use the 5m chart.

Just 5 mins with each laptop and I can already tell the difference. The windows laptop has so much more cursor lag and chart scrolling lag.

When I use OBS with MW, the windows laptop is struggling massively. Everything is sluggish. In comparison, the M1 Max is absolutely fine.

I do still experience the occasional hiccup with both, namely TPO's on the weekly just seem to load endlessly.

I'm not a programmer, but my understanding is that most java based platforms will never perform as well as platforms written in C++ like Sierra Charts.

I've seen a number of people online mention that OBS runs smoother on mac vs windows, so if you're running OBS then that's not surprising. I've never tried using that and just use the TechSmith SnagIt recorder, but interesting to hear your experience with OBS. Thanks!
 

coys997

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Interesting to see so many conflicting experiences.

My own comparison of MW on Mac vs Windows is between a Dell XPS 13 i7-1065G7 32GB ram with integrated graphics (2-3 years old) and a M1 Max 24c 32GB RAM.

When using MW, I'm plugging both into a 49inch 5120x1440p display. I also record this display with OBS.

I use candle sticks, footprints, volume profile and TPOs. I'm not a scalper and use the 5m chart.

Just 5 mins with each laptop and I can already tell the difference. The windows laptop has so much more cursor lag and chart scrolling lag.

When I use OBS with MW, the windows laptop is struggling massively. Everything is sluggish. In comparison, the M1 Max is absolutely fine.

I do still experience the occasional hiccup with both, namely TPO's on the weekly just seem to load endlessly.

I'm not a programmer, but my understanding is that most java based platforms will never perform as well as platforms written in C++ like Sierra Charts.
Glad you mentioned the M1 max. I’m in between deciding if I want to get the M1 max with 32gb or try a windows/linux distro. Sounds like it might be worth the time to at least try the m1 max and see how it performs. You and I have similar setups it sounds from charts to display to recording.

btw - if you don't want to keep messing with OBS, check out screenflick. I've found it way easier. Drag dimensions on screen to select recording area, then record. Multiple export options. I think it's Mac only which is why I was hoping to keep Mac instead of mucking about with windows / linux.
 

igor.s

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I think Linux based setup would provide a great performance for less money. You also get a stable environment. Try it with your existing laptop/desktop to test it. Linux Mint is easy distro and could be installed as a double boot option. I personally got rid of Windows and have only Linux installed on my laptop.

good luck.
 

coys997

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I think Linux based setup would provide a great performance for less money. You also get a stable environment. Try it with your existing laptop/desktop to test it. Linux Mint is easy distro and could be installed as a double boot option. I personally got rid of Windows and have only Linux installed on my laptop.

good luck.
I waffled back and forth for a while, but I ended up getting a solid deal from Lenovo on a P15 so I'm going to give linux a shot as I generally loathe windows. Sounds like MW on linux is a solid experience though.
 

lightwave

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@t85 Can you post your Windows machine configuration? CPU brand/clock/model, memory, SSD, graphic cards etc?
 

lightwave

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@t85 I think that MW has fundamental performance issue. I actually has rather better performance running TOS (another Java based trading platform) on Mac than Windows/Linux. Cursor is snappy, doesn't lag like MW. DOM/tape rendering is snappy. No perceivable lag. Now, the execution is a different story on TOS but that's not related to graphic performance.

Whatever MW uses for graphic rendering, it's probably hindered by the underlying native binding but it may be an inefficient use of the JavaFx or whatever Java graphic library it's using due to MW's architecture/design. I'm purely speculating based on my decades of software development experiences. Most performance issue stem from the architecture and design rather than the platform library.
 
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