Trade Copier Implementation

[AaronF]

Is the "XXXXPair" account that is shown in the dropdown menu of your DOM the trade copier you account you created? If so, can you post a screen shot of that trade copier account settings??

Also are both of those account from the same Login ID (Example: Apex / Rithmic login, but you have 2 accounts) and both the same data feed??

Yes, "XXXXXPair" is the trade copier account. Here is a screenshot:



Yes both accounts are from the same login ID and both from the same data feed (I'm running the "order flow" version of MotiveWave so can't use more than one broker and data-feed per workspace).

 

[Donovan2580]

Yes, "XXXXXPair" is the trade copier account. Here is a screenshot:

View attachment 2161

Yes both accounts are from the same login ID and both from the same data feed (I'm running the "order flow" version of MotiveWave so can't use more than one broker and data-feed per workspace).

Hmmm.... Settings look correct.

A couple of things:

1) Which version of MW are you running (I know you said Orderflow, but as far as updates go - Are you on 6.8.6?)
2) Not sure if this matters, but I always set my trade copier account to the default account - You could certainly try that if you already haven't. Just right click on the account (On the accounts tab) and set it as the default.
3) Who is your data provider? Is is Rithmic?

I use the Trade Copier every day and move my stops / profit targets around in the DOM and it works perfectly. I am using Rithmic, so I am just trying to determine what the difference is between your setup and mine

 

[AaronF]

Hmmm.... Settings look correct.

A couple of things:

1) Which version of MW are you running (I know you said Orderflow, but as far as updates go - Are you on 6.8.6?)
2) Not sure if this matters, but I always set my trade copier account to the default account - You could certainly try that if you already haven't. Just right click on the account (On the accounts tab) and set it as the default.
3) Who is your data provider? Is is Rithmic?

I use the Trade Copier every day and move my stops / profit targets around in the DOM and it works perfectly. I am using Rithmic, so I am just trying to determine what the difference is between your setup and mine

1) yes, 6.8.6
2) I think it was set to the default account, but actually not certain. I may have made that change afterward when adjusting things b/c it wasn't until recently that I noticed that could be done.
3) Data provider is Rithmic via Apex which uses:
- Gateway: Chicago
- System: Apex
- Non-aggregated market data

I'll test it again keeping in mind the copier account is set to default and see if it yields a different result.

What kind of setup are you using that is working?
A) Are you on the Pro edition?
B) How many accounts do you have in the copier account?
C) Which data service are you using? More than one?
D) Are they trader-funding accounts or real accounts?
E) Which broker or brokers?
F) Do you have success using both bracketed stops and manual stops and exits?

thanks, Aaron

 

[Donovan2580]

1) yes, 6.8.6
2) I think it was set to the default account, but actually not certain. I may have made that change afterward when adjusting things b/c it wasn't until recently that I noticed that could be done.
3) Data provider is Rithmic via Apex which uses:
- Gateway: Chicago
- System: Apex
- Non-aggregated market data

I'll test it again keeping in mind the copier account is set to default and see if it yields a different result.

What kind of setup are you using that is working?
A) Are you on the Pro edition?
B) How many accounts do you have in the copier account?
C) Which data service are you using? More than one?
D) Are they trader-funding accounts or real accounts?
E) Which broker or brokers?
F) Do you have success using both bracketed stops and manual stops and exits?

thanks, Aaron

A lot of things are the same... Please give it a try with the Trade Copier being set as a the default account and let me know...

Actually my only experience is with the trade copier is running it for Apex... To answer your questions.

A) Yes Pro Edition
B) I have used as many as 6
C) Apex / Rithmic (Only 1 login with multiple accounts)
D) Funded accounts as well as Eval accounts run together fine with the copier
E) Apex / Rithmic
F) Yes I often use manual stops or brackets and have not noticed your specific problem either way.

I should mention there is a bug somewhere in the communication between Rithmic and MotiveWave that will sometimes lead you to believe you are still in a position even though it has been closed out. This is an entirely different situation, but the reason I mention it is because I connect to MW via R Trader Pro to manage that issue. I cannot believe my connection through R Trader Pro is the difference, but I suppose anything is possible.

To connect that way you will need the Apex version of R Trader Pro which can be found on their webpage - If you cannot find it let me know and I'll send you a link.

 

[AaronF]

@Donovan2580 Thanks for the reply and information. I did quite a bit of testing today and recorded the tests. At first the issue wasn't there anymore and it was a bit frustrating that I couldn't replicate it again. But I ended up figuring out that the issue has to do specifically with using the 'Break Even' button and another separate issue when using the 'Cancel All' button. I'll create another post with the video and more specific information, but a quick summary is:

1) When I'm in a position in the copier account (e.g. 1 contract via copier, so 1 contract in each sub-account) then I press 'Break Even,' a stop is placed at break-even in both accounts as expected. Then, when I drag the stop order via the DOM to a different price using the copier account, at this point the stop order is adjusted only in the lead account and remains at the previous break-even price in the follower account.

2) If I subsequently press 'Cancel All' in the copier account, only the stop order in the lead account is cancelled while the stop order in the follower account remains uncancelled.

3) Changing the setting of 'default' to 'Y' or 'N' on the copier account seems to have no affect, as the bug happens under both conditions.

There were a few other quirks I came across and will address them in a follow-up post.

 

[Donovan2580]

@Donovan2580 Thanks for the reply and information. I did quite a bit of testing today and recorded the tests. At first the issue wasn't there anymore and it was a bit frustrating that I couldn't replicate it again. But I ended up figuring out that the issue has to do specifically with using the 'Break Even' button and another separate issue when using the 'Cancel All' button. I'll create another post with the video and more specific information, but a quick summary is:

1) When I'm in a position in the copier account (e.g. 1 contract via copier, so 1 contract in each sub-account) then I press 'Break Even,' a stop is placed at break-even in both accounts as expected. Then, when I drag the stop order via the DOM to a different price using the copier account, at this point the stop order is adjusted only in the lead account and remains at the previous break-even price in the follower account.

2) If I subsequently press 'Cancel All' in the copier account, only the stop order in the lead account is cancelled while the stop order in the follower account remains uncancelled.

3) Changing the setting of 'default' to 'Y' or 'N' on the copier account seems to have no affect, as the bug happens under both conditions.

There were a few other quirks I came across and will address them in a follow-up post.

Okay now we are getting somewhere To be honest I have never used the breakeven button. I just drag my stop there, or my exit strategy automatically moves it for me once it meets the criteria. I guess it makes sense that I have never ran across that quirk.

Also it is good to know that the default account does not over-rule the trade copier.

 

[AaronF]

Okay now we are getting somewhere To be honest I have never used the breakeven button. I just drag my stop there, or my exit strategy automatically moves it for me once it meets the criteria. I guess it makes sense that I have never ran across that quirk.

Also it is good to know that the default account does not over-rule the trade copier.

Next time you are in a trade using the trade copier and have an exit strategy move your stop to breakeven, could you run a test by dragging the stop order (via the copier account) to a different price and see if it moves in all of the sub-accounts? That would be helpful to know if it functions correctly in a bracket-order scenario.

I don't think I will have time soon to edit the videos and create a new post with more detailed information, but will try to follow-up on it at some point. The brief summary I posted above describes the main issues. If anyone runs into the same issues or is willing to test it out please post up.

 

[AaronF]

I should mention there is a bug somewhere in the communication between Rithmic and MotiveWave that will sometimes lead you to believe you are still in a position even though it has been closed out. This is an entirely different situation, but the reason I mention it is because I connect to MW via R Trader Pro to manage that issue. I cannot believe my connection through R Trader Pro is the difference, but I suppose anything is possible.

To connect that way you will need the Apex version of R Trader Pro which can be found on their webpage - If you cannot find it let me know and I'll send you a link.

I have run into that issue as well. What I've noticed is that the DOM will still show a position at the bottom where it says "Pos:" then + or - whatever position you're in even after you've closed the trade. It's a bit tricky but not too difficult to catch after you recognize that it does sometimes happen because you will notice that when you've closed the position from the DOM, nothing seems to happen when it should have closed the trade. The remedy I've found is to go to the 'accounts' tab, right click 'accounts' to show the pop-up menu, then select 'refresh.' If I remember correctly, when it happens to me, the 'open positions' tab and 'active tab' do not show any open positions, only the 'account' tab and the DOM; so this is another clue NOT to use the trade order buttons to try to close the trade since it will result in taking an opposite position. Either refresh (best option) or restart the software to get rid of the "phantom" position.



These bugs are very unfortunate to have to deal with in a fast moving market. Once volatility increases again it will be difficult to manage and we're likely to hear about more complaints.

 

[Donovan2580]

Next time you are in a trade using the trade copier and have an exit strategy move your stop to breakeven, could you run a test by dragging the stop order (via the copier account) to a different price and see if it moves in all of the sub-accounts? That would be helpful to know if it functions correctly in a bracket-order scenario.

I don't think I will have time soon to edit the videos and create a new post with more detailed information, but will try to follow-up on it at some point. The brief summary I posted above describes the main issues. If anyone runs into the same issues or is willing to test it out please post up.

I tried it out today and it worked just fine:

IE - My exit strategy automatically moved my stop to B.E. when I got up 16 ticks... It happened today and I was able to move that order on the trade copier account & all other accounts moved as well.

Hope that helps

 

[Pharaoh145]

Hi All,

I cancelled my MW subscription some time back, but am contemplating coming back now that the Trade Copier is finally available.

As a Mac user, I’m on the fence between reinstalling MW, or using Quantower or NinjaTrader via Paralells.

My questions are:

Is there a limit to how many “follower” accounts you can add?

Have the Flatten errors I’ve read about here been addressed and resolved?

Is the Trade Copier dependable now? (December 28, 2023)

Does it work on the mobile version?


Thanks ins advance.

 

[MrSharky]

I'm a big fan of MW, and its my goto platform, anyday everyday. But with all the problems with the trade copier I just gave up on that feature long time ago. I use QT for Copytrading and its like day and night for me. But I still use MW for everything else.

 

[Hadwan]

I have run into that issue as well. What I've noticed is that the DOM will still show a position at the bottom where it says "Pos:" then + or - whatever position you're in even after you've closed the trade. It's a bit tricky but not too difficult to catch after you recognize that it does sometimes happen because you will notice that when you've closed the position from the DOM, nothing seems to happen when it should have closed the trade. The remedy I've found is to go to the 'accounts' tab, right click 'accounts' to show the pop-up menu, then select 'refresh.' If I remember correctly, when it happens to me, the 'open positions' tab and 'active tab' do not show any open positions, only the 'account' tab and the DOM; so this is another clue NOT to use the trade order buttons to try to close the trade since it will result in taking an opposite position. Either refresh (best option) or restart the software to get rid of the "phantom" position.

View attachment 2164

These bugs are very unfortunate to have to deal with in a fast moving market. Once volatility increases again it will be difficult to manage and we're likely to hear about more complaints.

I have the same issue with trade copier and the break even button

 

[spider64]

Has anyone tried to use Trade Copier with an active strategy? I have been testing a strategy I built using Strategy from Trading Indicators and it has been working well trading an IB and Rithmic account simultaneously using both ES and NQ. Both paper accounts since I'm testing right now. Last night I set up a Trade Copier account and entered a trade with an exit strategy with two targets and two stops that executed as expected including moving stops and targets and flattening and cancelling the bracket exit orders. This morning I tried it with my automated strategy pointing to the Trade Copier account and the entry trade failed. I'm waiting to hear back from Jason at MW about using Trade Copier with MW strategies and just thought I would also ask here. I'm sure I'll hear from Jason tomorrow.