Choosing Level 1 over Level 2 data services

Limitdown

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Level 2 data services are a prime money generator for the data services arms of the exchanges, however, as consumers of that data, we anticipate, expect and presume there is an advantage to knowing more about the current price than just what Level 1 data services provides. Another competitor to individual traders, namely your prime competition, are the algos and users of algos, as well as the larger firms. The most common terms used are running the stops or clearing out the retail traders. It is important to know and have some concept of who are the other consumers of the pizza pie, that you are eating. IOW, it is important to have some concept of why other persons or entities are participating in the exact same market and symbol and contract you are targeting or trading.

Now that we have set the ground work for this short discussion, one need realize that a number of trading groups, commentators as well as firms have had these discussions and conclusions and willing share these same conclusions that simply put the advantages for Dome trading, which usually requires Level 2 data services has lost its edge primarily due to the factor that there are more auto traders called algos that participate in the trading paradigm. Whether these algos are fully automated and operate during a time window or otherwise, they are some of the prime components of these co-location servers, where one pays for server / desktop hosting in physical buildings very near to the exchange servers. Some exchanges have arrangements and some companies have services at or near these locations solely to gain a fractional time advantage of order submission over other traders originating their orders from their locations. These factors of distance, courier services (cellular, fiber, cable, high speed ISP services, microwave and other methods) and means all play a factor on who's order gets "enqueue" sooner, than the majority of other orders. Retail traders really can't compete in these factors, however, one manner is to keep your funds in your pocket as the advantages of knowing full book sizes have been countered by the impact of these algos.

Another (rather nasty) feature of these auto traders or algos are their ungentlemanly conduct of spoofing. The term connotates a very negative deceptive practice of entering orders in size with the sole intention of deceiving those observing the dome of their true intent, true orders or true direction. The other factor is those orders are intended to be cancelled or pulled while leaving the real intent, real order, original order in place, on book for execution.

In short, this thread is giving voice to the notion that Level 2 data services have lost a significant value proposition for the retail trader as well as significant monthly fixed expense to their trading accounts and can be, should be reconsidered in one's review of services, value and features used. IOW, save your money.
 

ScottyA

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From a personal POV, I agree, however for the sake of conversation, I'll respond.

L2 data is another means to read the market and nothing more. It simply opens the door to new trading methodologies like DOM trading, HeatMap, Footprint charts, etc. that weren't available without L2 data. But, that doesn't mean traders are able to leverage these tools to be successful.

Algos, spoofing, and such are simply the competitive landscape, and it's the responsibility of all traders to understand the competition and recognize the environment by which they execute.

I'll summarize my brief thoughts with a sports example from American football. It's the hardest question of all to answer: what makes a great QB? Any sports fan can easily look at Tom Brady, point to his accomplishments, and then leverage his skills as proof of what makes a great QB. Yes... then why was he drafted in the 6th round? Why did Tom only get a shot once Drew Bledsoe, the starting QB in front of Brady, got hurt? No one saw #TB12 coming.

The point I'm trying to make is that while my experience says save my money and avoid L2 data, that doesn't mean L2 data isn't worth the investment for some.
 
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Limitdown

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Very well said, and glad to see your contribution to the thread and discussion @ScottyA

This is one of those conversations where the oscillator changes color from positive to negative to positive depending upon where one's success rates are on the curve, as it were.

FWIW, success breeds success and largess and the ability to have higher fixed costs, both monthly and annually as well as use for (as you so very well summed up) other facets of TA (technical Analysis) that require Level2.

Those taking those funded trials and services have these features already accounted for in their overhead, however, when they step off and deal with the reality of just how tempermental, fickle, inconsistent and elusive success really is they will see the wisdom of treating expenses like the KOD until profitability justifies running low in the water.

Good trading to you all, and good health too...

Hey, I am waiting on the release of the new indicators that works across platforms that allows for changing sim trade results into live results. How much should it cost?, and should it be on lease, lifetime or single payer basis? (smile)
 

ScottyA

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Yep. The steepest part of the trading learning curve is that you don't know what you don't.

It's easy to believe and chase after the "next big thing that will make me successful," and that includes what comes from L2 data.

Best to you as well! See you on the Forum.
 

more

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All depends of your needs. If U do not know what to do with L2 - its not your choice.
 

Limitdown

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All depends of your needs. If U do not know what to do with L2 - its not your choice.
meaningless and useless response, and only leads to questions to further explain yourself, which would have been wise, the initial time, given that the thesis (opening statement) was so verbose.

any trader has to seriously consider what they are doing when they trade. are they doing it for business and success (i.e. wealth) or entertainment (hopefully NOT).

any trader has to seriously consider whether they have funds to waste or demand a result from invested effort (data services and fees, computer and support fees, software and licensing costs, etc)

each trader's intersection point or crossover point between weighing successful trades results (i.e.profits) over expenses are individual. whether or not one places sufficient demand for a high degree of performance and ROI commensurate with effort extended. a logical conclusion then is unless its not for entertainment but a significant advantage that has been demonstrasted from one's own trading results, then cutting expenses and using Level 1 is the next logical step over waiting capital on affording Level 2 data

another significant factor are the realities that the algo(s) have successfully cancelled out the advantages that having Level 2 data, used to supply. competing against those co-located, auto-trading platforms are something wise, surviving traders have long since chosen not to compete with.

while there are uses, they are far fewer and less than productive.

we engage in these highly detailed discussions, not only to weed out useless and worthless responses, like the one preceeding this, but also to aggressively share current "best practices" that are working, knowing that any method, approach or technique will have and have had short shelf lives.

without mentioning the name of a software trading firm that sought to direct significant attention and focus upon using level 2, market profile usage (or orderflow analysis and/or volume profile) and trading based on that approach, just to obtain an edge.

what has been observed is the advantage, based on the actual vehicle or contract being traded, as only a fleeting advantage and questionable follow-through. that discussion is another thread, all in itself, and should only be commented upon had the trader actually invested (heavily) in that method.

either way to Sunday, what you as a retail trader can achieve with Level 1 can be done so with efficiency of resources, time and effort and redirect or refocus their attention towards whichever timeframe (other than scalping, short term or micro term) produces more consistent profitable results....

what say you? (uh, only if you're committed to something substantive to contribute)
 

ScottyA

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another significant factor are the realities that the algo(s) have successfully cancelled out the advantages that having Level 2 data, used to supply. competing against those co-located, auto-trading platforms are something wise, surviving traders have long since chosen not to compete with.

This summarizes well the environment that led me away from Level 2. I saw no edge that had been erased by algos.
 

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meaningless and useless response
what say you?

1. Only you decide what to pay for.
Is it worth paying for the depth of the market, is it necessary to buy the platform, and in the end, what is the true reason for wanting or believing that by giving your money to brokers/exchanges you will become richer?

2. If we consider L2 of an non-professional level, it is not so expensive. Especially in comparison with brokerage and exchanges commissions - this is the first and largest item of expenditure (for active intraday traders).

3. All people are different. Some do not need L2, someone relies only on this data and has better results, some trade without charts at all. We have different experiences, knowledge, different depth of understanding of the subject and this is normal. Should we use depth of the market and pay for it? Who knows, everything again depends on the specifics of a particular consumer.
 
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